Well the Streamys happened and it was a marvelous party. It was one of those nights that was a marker in the quick history of online video. Ten years ago at the edge of Web 1.0 there were some brave video pioneers making shows for the net alone in the wilderness with no standards of delivery, business model, or format. Shorts like 405 and series like Homestar and Red vs. Blue and many, many others that haven’t endured are the giants upon which we all are standing.
Four years ago the second wave of video shows appeared, embracing podcasting and the first iterations of flash video (including YouTube). This was the wave AskANinja, TikiBar, Rocketboom, French Maid TV, and LG15 were on.
And today we have 1000 plus people gathered to watch celebrities and weblebrities present and collect awards.
As Streamy Award winner Zadi Diaz OH’d from the afterparty:
L.A. has turned from “I have a screenplay” to “I have a webshow.”
That is a very true statement, everyone here now either has a show idea or an actual series. The problem is that you still need the screenplay — or at least another show that you can sell to someone else.
But Felicia Day’s speech was a great reflection of the pentup frustration at how creatively deadly Hollywood can be, in her speech she thanked all of the casting directors and everyone else in Hollywood that refused to hire her because she didn’t look right, so she had to write something for herself to showcase her talents.
And that’s exactly right — the jobs I get to direct are the ones that I help create, same as it ever was. No one will believe in you if you don’t believe in yourself. Make something and prove yourself.
As for the Streamys the show itself? Overall it was wonderful, the best awards show for online video thus far. But it was an awards show — the banter was bad (but isn’t it always at every awards show), the speeches sometimes went a little long, and they should have acknowledged Tay Zonday from the outset, or put him on stage or something, and no one told me I had a reserved seat (but I chalk that up to my own idiocy 
).
I thought it was great that the winners included so many celebs, old guard, and new comers. It was a good mix. I think in the future we should somehow put webisodes of TV series in their own category — having the Battle Star Gallactica show win so many awards with it being such an established brand was the only thing a little weird to me.
At the after party looking around with some other old hands in this game, we all had a bittersweet look in our eyes. The days of being a small club of intimates were over, and it’s been replaced with the glitz and glamor of a Hollywood scene.
But that’s okay.
We knew it was going to happen and we wanted it to happen. The important thing is to keep the doors open for those of us behind us, the unknowns just cutting their teeth and looking to entertain and delight us in the future. If we somehow close those people out of the party, we’ll all be the poorer.
30 Comments
March 30, 2009 at 11:09 am
I don’t watch award shows, EVER. Yet, on Saturday night I sat in front of my computer screen and watched the entire thing. FYI- re: Tay Zonday, those of us at home following along on twitter were treated to this http://twitpic.com/2kbel
March 30, 2009 at 11:14 am
I had a blast and was really happy that TubeFilter, Tilzy.TV and NewTeeVee went to the trouble of making this happen.
I’m still wondering who cash flowed this puppy cause Theaters at VA Hospitals don’t just take a $500 deposit off your debit card to hold the theater for you until your sponsors pay.
March 30, 2009 at 11:25 am
Well put, Kent. I agree the show was a phenomenal production, and yes – TV derivatives should really have their own category. One of my favorite moments of the night was Steve’s speech when he acknowledged Ze Frank and Rocketboom, though I have a feeling a lot of people in the room were left scratching their head. “Ze who?” From our point of view, that’s boderline sacrilege.
Like you said, we knew this was coming. It just sort up sprung up a lot quicker than I expected. With that said, us “old timers” need to keep up with the burgeoning new “Hollywood web television” culture, or we’ll end up like Jimmy Messina after Loggins split.
March 30, 2009 at 11:46 am
“The days of being a small club of intimates were over, and it’s been replaced with the glitz and glamor of a Hollywood scene.
But that’s okay.
We knew it was going to happen and we wanted it to happen.”
Agree with the 1st point, firmly disagree on the 2nd. I never wanted a part of your Hollywood. Most of the producers I associate with don’t either. Of those in LA I’ve spoken with most, the general rebuttal to this is “you just don’t know how to play the game”. But that presumes that there is a set of rules to this game, or that this is the same game that has been played forever. That’s simply not true. Nobody can tell us what to make, how to make it, or who gets to play. That’s the most un-Hollywood shit ever. It’s a new game, and it’s rare to see that recognized. Assumptions are made, and the real freedom of this medium is willfully forgotten.
All of that said, I think any attention an association brings to web video is good. As so many have proved, sometimes unknowingly: any publicity is good publicity.
March 30, 2009 at 12:04 pm
@quirk: right, but going back to the Characters Panel at VloggerCon in ’06, there seemed to be a huge current that what Tim Street and I were doing was wrong and that what everyone else there was doing was right — particularly what Andrew Baron and Rocketboom were doing. Specifically, eschewing commercialism, embracing that it only cost $5/day to produce a show, etc.
But then Rocketboom went kaboom a month later, and it came out that Andrew was a trustafarian that would never need to work a day in his life.
The mood back then was we want the audiences and recognition that comes with mainstream Hollywood success, but not be mainstream. Which is fine, but that’s the same as wanting your cake and eating it too.
If you want to be mainstream, then you need to be mainstream. And if you’re not mainstream yet, then act like you are. And if you aren’t and don’t act like it, don’t be surprised if you toil away unrecognized (though a lucky few will strike gold!
).
The writer’s strike accelerated all of the trends of moving towards the web. There are still mountains of filmmakers yet to be converted, but soon they too will join the fray.
Theatrical film distribution will increasingly become for mega-blockbusters only and the luddite holdouts. Adults will only go see live events like the Met Opera series and 3D football games at the theaters.
March 30, 2009 at 1:52 pm
“But then Rocketboom went kaboom a month later, and it came out that Andrew was a trustafarian that would never need to work a day in his life.”
The harder you work, the luckier you get.
March 30, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@andrew True, but when you were talking all puppies and kittens and $5 a day at VloggerCon 2006 and harshly criticizing us at SXSW 2007 for having an agent and wanting to make money, the true nature of your inherent wealth was not well known.
And then it was the height of hypocrisy that after you had basically said we were money grubbing asshats for having Hollywood agents that you signed with CAA, the largest and most powerful agency around.
March 30, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I really wish I had been at the Streamys, even though I am just joining in on the fun. And thank you for writing what you did here. It reminds me that I need to keep pushing, keep creating and challenge myself creatively – and not wait for someone else to invite me along to play.
Thanks for opening the door, and most important, leaving it open behind you.
March 30, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Good discussion guys – I think we’re all realizing that this shift in entertainment means that traditional Hollywood now has to co-exist with indie web series for the ever-scarce attention of viewers.
Both sides have a lot to teach each other – and going forward it means they will be somewhat awkwardly getting to know the other.
I’m thrilled with the support of the web community behind the Streamys. Felicia’s speech was the moment I got the most choked up. Powerful and true. You no longer have to wait for someone to “pick you” or give you permission to make entertainment. Just do it.
March 30, 2009 at 2:20 pm
There have been a few points in time where you could recognize that something was taking place, an event or a happening, after which nothing would be the same. The Streamys were one of those points.
There were some obvious oversights — a category for videobloggers like those on YouTube (how those folks could be excluded is hard to figure), a category for one-off videos as opposed to series, and a separation of series originally made for the web versus series derived from material based on other media (e.g. Battlestar) are the first that come to mind.
But it truly was a momentous evening and marked a shift in the recognition of what web video is becoming in the world of entertainment. Tubefilter, Tilzy, and NewTeeVee deserve a huge amount of credit for injecting energy into this, and it’s extremely gratifying to see the LA filmmaker and television community finally getting involved. In 2007 at an event called Pixelodeon, we worked really hard to reach that community, but they just were not ready to see the possibilities at that time.
Thankfully, web video will never be centralized just around LA, NYC, or San Francisco. As long as the pipes stay unencumbered by neutrality issues, everyone will have a chance to get their work in front of the world.
March 30, 2009 at 2:41 pm
I only watched for a bit, but what is really important is that the awards happen. This is definitely the creative frontier/artistic entrepreneurship and the recognition is great. I admire people for putting themselves out there. And I as a viewer get the payoff. Of course, the really talented folks will be off making crappy mainstream TV soon s0… oh shit never mind maybe these awards do suck.
March 30, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Wow, a battle in the comments that have nothing to do with the post!
Awesome:)
I’ve been writing some posts about my problems with the Streamys and really it only has to do with the fact that the first event the International Academy of Web Television does is make an awards show. It’s just kinda odd and not very forward-thinking.
As for throwing a party, well, Kent, you know I do enjoy a drink or two with friends.
I’ve been half-assedly writing about it on my tumblrs: here, here, and here, and most importantly an interesting comment from someone else here.
Sorry for all the links, but figured it would explain where my head is at much better than what I can type out right now.
March 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I think the Streamys (which I thoroughly enjoyed) made it pretty clear that there’s a countdown on how much longer people like “us” (and obviously you guys were all well established in this scene before I showed up) will be able to hold there own upon first jumping into the medium.
The noise is only going to get louder and the folks screaming into the ether will be people with significantly more money than the little guy making a $5 or even $1000 dollar video.
On the other hand it was amazingly inspirational to see this transition happen and the biggest impact it’s had on me personally is to drive me to continually attempt to step up my game. Everyone wins if there’s a body out there pushing everyone to push themselves.
March 30, 2009 at 3:14 pm
I’m not sure why the bitterness, this is news to me. Yet I have never criticized anyone for wanting to make money. I have said from the start that I designed Rocketboom in a way that I thought could more likely make money. If you’ll notice from this list of conferences that I have spoken at, in many cases it was on how to do business, even as early as 2005:
http://www.rocketboom.com/press/rb_speaking_engagements.pdf
So as a matter of fact, you are wrong about that. As for the $25 dollar claim, that’s true Kent. I did everything myself singlehandedly with the help of a few friends who pitched in for free. Didnt need equitptment or service. You continue to miss that point and try to equate this to money. There was no money around that time, and I was working three teaching jobs right up until I started Rocketboom, and then continued teaching even after I started Rocketboom. Just like your parents gave you money to help you with Ask A Ninja, my parents did help me too. For me it was chump change compared to what our collegues got from thier venture capital friends. But also Rocketboom has brought in way more than it’s spent even including our biggest expense to date which has been legal fees dealing with people who have tried to take Rocketboom away in more ways than one.
And let me please address your trust-fund claim. This is just a load of bullshit. Until my father died 5 months ago, Ive never had more than a months worth of living in my bank account, ever. Never had any savings, no insurence, no money to invest. Yet should I be faulted because my parents worked their asses off and paid for my college for instance? As you will note from my portfolio here, I have worked my ASS OFF every step of the way through my life, starting with delivering chicken to data-entry jobs, though working 9-5 all through the dotcom boom, all the while trying to persue music and fine arts in the background:
http://a.parsons.edu/~baron/portfolio.html
You and I are both privileged and have a massive advantage over others. Think of the people in the developing world with no access to computers. Or what about the young kids who are too little to understand how to do business? What about the people who lived 200 years ago? Or who never got an education at all? What about the kids who got so much money from their parents that they never did a thing in their life except drugs and party? That’s why I say, no matter where you start, it seems the harder you work, the luckier you get.
And the one thing that I noticed that separates Rocketboom from many of the other shows out there, since you mention it, is that even with millions of dollars of investment that other shows have been given – money handed to people because they were lucky or knew how to ask right – few have faired well at building a business of any value or being able to daily programming because it requires so much hard work.
And what may seem like a long time in technology years, is just a sliver of a mark on media years. Things haven’t even begun yet. All the phases you mention above in your post are all pre.
Anyway, this was a defensive post; I wanted to address these wrong and irrelevant claims you have about me and Rocketboom.
March 30, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Like any other newborn, the Streamy’s are going to have teething pains and there were a few to be noted on Saturday night. But overall, it was a staggering success and I was very proud to be a small part of it.
We indie producers have indeed toiled hard to make something of ourselves the last 3 years or so and those of us who stayed in the game are seeing it pay off. The Streamy’s may have been a bit too focused on celebs who were celebs before new media came along, but one has to start somewhere and with any business it’s understandable they want this to hit the ground running.
My hat is off to Marc, Drew, Jamison, Josh, Brady and all the others who have put together something that will only get stronger, wiser, and more popular. I’m not going to be cynical about this venture because their hearts are in the right places and they need to be applauded for it.
March 30, 2009 at 3:45 pm
@andrew According to Gawker, your father was an investor in RB for close a million dollars. My parents invested $10,000, and I suckered some other people that loved me for another $50k in the indie film model of financing.
The article goes on to state that your father used that money he invested to save the Rocketboom brand from splitting up with Amanda Congdon.
http://gawker.com/5033448/how-daddys-money-paid-for-andrew-barons-rocketboom
On February 3 2007 you wrote in an email:
Which was the direct attack attack on money and Hollywood agents that I was referring to and only publish here because you denied ever being against making money and the other panelists were CC’d.
This email chain was followed up with you at SXSW on the escalator personally apologizing for the email coming off as an attack, but then reiterating all of your points.
On the cost per episode, you’re more correct than I — I misremembered the amount the times said you produced an episode for, I thought it was $5, you thought it was $25, but the headline was $20. Here’s that article.
March 30, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Skipping the Rocketboom stuff and responding to this:
You’re tinting everything with this idea; my response is the same: I don’t need a lecture about becoming mainstream for a hundred reasons, most of all because I don’t need “mainstream” to be successful (and you don’t either!).
The end goal for me isn’t mainstream Hollywood success, it’s the material itself. It’s making anything and compromising nothing.
So when you tell me that if I’m not mainstream and don’t act like it I’m condemned to toil away (presumably in your glorious Hollywood shadow), it sounds like the death throes of an old lumbering media mogul, not the advice of a new media success story. It just makes me wonder why you feel this way.
That session in ’06 got heated, I was admittedly confused at the lineup, and it took very little time for my then-cohort Weagel to come down hard on Tim Street for his faux-pron misogyny. But just because I’m not a fan of your material doesn’t mean I don’t respect you and what you’ve built. There’s a place for everyone in this freak show, Hollywood types included. I just don’t want you guys to think you’re running the circus.
March 30, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I think the event was well organized and I appreciate all the hard work.
As for who won? I was disappointed with most winners that weren’t indie, but that’s just me… I’d like to see more innovators getting recognition – but that’s hard to do when you have to compete with BSG, who already owns the set/equipment/etc.
Here’s what I hope for in the future:
- More academy members from all walks of our industry.
- For the indie to be driven to succeed and kick Dr. Horrible’s ass next year (…already on it, yo).
I’m sure I have more to say, but I’m in a rush.
Love you, Kent… love you, Andrew… peace out.
March 30, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Andrew did in fact deliver chicken for Popeye’s in his first car, a beat up old Jeep. He traded that in for a 1977 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ5 that was owned by a fisherman whose secret bait had limburger cheese in it that made his truck smell like toe jam. For a long ass time. Andrew rocks. He’s tried just about everything on the planet in terms of work, art, communication — eventually you hit it if you try that hard. Respect where it is due.
March 30, 2009 at 3:58 pm
@quirk well, i think you’re right — you can’t imitate mainstream, you have to follow your own muse and let it take you wherever that goes.
and for most of us, that means finding a niche audience. the ninja’s audience has expanded and contracted without our control really, based on the whims of the day, and we’ve been seen millions of times, but since there’s no hollywood marketing machine behind it there’s no one touting it.
I just am remembering from that panel, that there was a frustration in the audience of why this weird show or that weird show wasn’t being watched more.
And the answer back then was, because not a whole lot of people were watching online video. Now audiences are bigger in general, so there’s even more room to find a niche.
But the question for me always comes back to how can we sustain, how can we keep producing? For most people they can only manage a very limited output of shows if they aren’t doing it as a “job”.
And most of the jobby jobs in online video are creatively destroying, just as they are in Hollywood. So I guess my working definition of mainstream would be, something that communicates, not imitates, or puts on airs to be like a big-budget Hollywood production.
Communication is the key for me. Closing that loop with the audience and having the intimacy and immediacy with them. That’s what I meant by mainstream — which I should probably find a much better word for.
March 30, 2009 at 4:06 pm
[...] | von sms um 02:00zitat nach zadi diaz, not only rocketboom.com field correspondent | via andrew | via kent | http://vote.streamys.org/ neu bei rebell.tv? magazin.rebell.tv | s.w.i.r. | sender auf der [...]
March 30, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Bored at work and figured I’d try and add to the great conversation going on here.
There is a lot of fear that the traditional Hollywood system will fully infect the online video world and the distinctions will soon disappear. Seems to me the only way to prevent this, if indeed the community as a whole wants to prevent this, is to practice enormous restraint and say no. Say no to the bad offers with lots of dollars behind them that, if you’re lucky, will come in from traditional media. Lead by example if you are lucky enough to be in the position where people actually care what you say and do. Inspire others developing projects on the Web to follow your lead. Prove that power is not always equated to wealth.
The way I see it from my personal vantage point on Web video (definition: struggling to make it a full time job), this is the way to keep Web video on course to where we would all seem to want it to go. Hollywood will continue to drop their seed on the Web in hopes of birthing a bastard child that they can manipulate and raise as their own. But, if we (more like all of you) do not get wrapped up in their game and continue to create great content and speak to an audience and generation Hollywood does not yet fully understand than we will all still own this and guide it and hopefully keep it from being fused with that Hollywood demon sperm.
Everything comes down to human nature. Hollywood is not a single breathing entity. It’s a conglomeration of a lot of different human beings who all set a course for themselves and collectively allowed Hollywood to become….well, Hollywood. This is true of governments, corporations, religious groups (insert any organized group of people with a purpose here). If the Web has a different fate it will take the collective nature of the people at the forefront of content creation on the Web to stay in control. The Web can not be forced in one path or another. It can only be allowed to go down one path or another.
We all could have sat home Saturday night and boycotted The Streamy’s and possibly made a statement that would have resonated, but most of us didn’t. Let’s face it, we wanted a larger recognition and a big celebration. It was fun and its human nature to want to be a part of something bigger than ourselves. I personally like a lot of things about Hollywood. I moved here from NY over 6 years ago to be a part of it. There are some incredible people from Hollywood with their hands firmly in the Web and they’re pretty damn valuable and genuine. So, really what I think the ideal here ends up being is taking the good parts of the Hollywood system and mixing it properly with the Web. It’s a sensitive mixture, but it doesn’t need to be a volatile one.
March 30, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Kent, are you seriously citing Valleywag for your news sources? Jackson West no less? What is the world coming to!
I saw you write last summer that you were filming three months of Ask a Ninja in one weekend. That doesn’t require as much production costs as Rocketboom does at 5 days a week, with around the clock human help. Nor does that require legal fees to go through the Supreme Court of NY. We no longer spend $25/day, thats just what was needed to get up in running and get noticed. This was all documented here if you are interested:
http://dembot.com/post/44804077/sony-pictures-acquires-exclusive-worldwide-cross
So, about that letter I sent to you, you are absolutely right, I wanted to stop and apologize to you as a human being because clearly you didn’t see the spirit of debate in it, esp. sense we had previously had spirited debate, but I still stand behind what I said which was critical of your approach and I meant that in an academic way as anyone would in the setting of a panel in such a time:
1) I questioned the deal terms that were reported and just wanted to talk about it. I believe the info should be accurate if public, to not mislead people into thinking that the market was coming together, when in fact it wasnt. This is why I always documented our steps on my blog throughout the years.
2) You have always spoken about your agenda as using the medium to get your foot into the door in Hollywood. Thus, I felt as though your agenda was very different than mine. I have always been much more concerned for the democratization of media and see Hollywood as full of creative production talent but completely sick with the way they do business and treat people (stereotype obviously re: Brian above). I don’t think creating lawyers of middle people like managers<agencies<ad networks<mediabuyers<advertisers is the way to go and that’s what I wanted to argue. After Rocketboom sold ads on Ebay, people wondered outloud if the future marketplace would be an auction site where producers picked theirs ads, and I was critical of this too. I am also am not fond of product placement or advertising that makes ones web site look like a Times Square for advertising either, Kent
Rocketboom is currently working on a Rocketboom Tech segment along with Intel and there were no layers like the above in the deal. Just me and one person from Intel.
But whatever, I appreciate your content and think its funny and have always appreciated and supported you for that reason, which to me, is more important than anything else. Also everyone has a different reason and purpose, and you have done great at taking matters into your own hands and making it happen for yourself, which is the point. I noticed even still today you are on the top 100 iTunes charts.
p.s. Thanks Brit!!
March 30, 2009 at 5:07 pm
If you have a disagreement with the fellah that’s one thing, but “my dad put less money into the business than your dad” is an ad-hominem-sour-grapes-straw-man and has no bearing on how hard someone works or what he’s capable of.
March 30, 2009 at 6:13 pm
I feel like I stumbled across the Yahoo Video Blogger’s group from two years ago. ;p
March 30, 2009 at 7:36 pm
This comments thread is as good, or better than the article. I love a vigorous debate!
I was honored to be a member of the academy, and did my best to vote for the things I felt were most deserving. I was amazed at the amount of obscure shows listed in the initial nominee lists, so it’s solely the fault of us, the judges, for not being familiar with them all and bringing them into the spotlight. Fact of the matter is, the web is still a highly scattered world, something I could tell from the scattered applause erupting from different areas of the room, very few being collectively recognized by the whole. Dr. Horrible was the biggest, most mainstream web smash so it’s no shock it came in as a de facto pick for the large majority.
March 30, 2009 at 11:15 pm
[...] and thought provoking reads/watches: Mary Rambin’s event coverage, Tilzy TV’s recap, Kent Nichols’ thoughts and ensuing debate. And check out all the awesome photos by the Bui [...]
March 31, 2009 at 3:35 am
Btw, in retrospect Kent, I actually don’t like Ask A Ninja all that much (its a funny concept though) and think you are a bitter and mean person.
March 31, 2009 at 10:01 am
Impostor comment above. I like Kent, and Ask a Ninja, even though I try to avoid ninjas as a general rule.
March 31, 2009 at 10:11 am
lol. All of the Andrew Baron comments have come from the same IP address. Here is the log from the last two (specifics have been redacted):
New comment on your post #298 “Thoughts on the First Streamys”
Author : Andrewbaron (IP: 71.XXX.XXX.166 , pool-71-XXX-XXX-166.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
E-mail : XXXXXXX@Rocketboom.com
URL :
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=71.XXX.XXX.166
Comment:
Btw, in retrospect Kent, I actually don’t like Ask A Ninja all that much (its a funny concept though) and think you are a bitter and mean person.
New comment on your post #298 “Thoughts on the First Streamys”
Author : Andrew Baron (IP: 71.XXX.XXX.166 , pool-71-XXX-XXX-166.nycmny.east.verizon.net)
E-mail : XXXXXXX@rocketboom.com
URL : http://www.rocketboom.com
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=71.XXX.XXX.166
Comment:
Impostor comment above. I like Kent, and Ask a Ninja, even though I try to avoid ninjas as a general rule.
I think I’ll close the comments now, so you don’t debate yourself further.
Comments are closed.